Let’s Talk About Fasting!

Posted on 03.25.08 in Faith and there are 21 comments.

It’s such a fun and popular subject! Who doesn’t love to talk about fasting?!

Fun. Fun. Fun.

Or rather…

Awkward. Awkward. Awkward.

Why are we so weird about fasting? Why is it so rarely talked about?

The Matthew 6 Passage

A lot of people were taught that we aren’t supposed to talk about fasting because of Matthew 6: 16-18. But the verses right before that passage (5-6) say the exact same thing about prayer.

Yet we fight for prayer in schools and pray in public before our meals.

So, something is out of balance there.

Either we need to talk about prayer less or fasting more.

The Real Reason We Don’t Talk About Fasting

I think the real reason we don’t talk about fasting is because we don’t really like it and we don’t really do it.

Oh, perhaps, we do a once a year fast with our church, but I imagine that for most Western Christians, it is not a part of our regular spiritual lives.

Happily, Matthew 6 gives us a great excuse not to talk about it.

But I want that to change. I want to fast more regularly.

Fasting isn’t fun but I think that at some point our faith needs to become uncomfortable.

So what do you think? Do you fast regularly? (Would you tell us if you did?) Do you think it’s bad to talk about fasting?

(Just another light Wednesday morning topic for ya.)

The Comments:

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Aren’t you a little late on this?  Lent just finished and Easter has arrived.

I’ve been a real slacker this last year and a half with fasting.  I signed up for <A>HREF="http://www.e5men.org/">E5 men</A> and it only lasted a few months before petering completely out.  I didn’t even do much during Lent, so I’m all ears to hear what people have to say.  My mother-in-law fasts on every Friday and some Wednesdays on bread and water.  I have a tough time with even that.

MB

I was just going to say before reading MB’s post that people talk freely about fasting during Lent.

In addition to fasting, something I’ve always wanted to do since reading about it in a missionary biography is stay up all night and pray.  Unfortunately, I always seem to fall asleep.  I think it would work better if I did it with other people.

As far as the prayer fasting and talking about it connection, do people really talk about prayer that much?  I think people say things like...I’ll pray for you or I’ve been praying for you, but they don’t say, well, during my two hour prayer session...la la la.

well, I’m interested to hear what others are going to say as well.

This is an interesting subject.  I’m glad you brought it up!  I became a Christian in high school (which was more than 10 years ago) and have never really fasted.  I can’t say that I’ve ever heard anyone talking about it, including the various churches that I have attended in those years.  I suppose it never occured to me that it is something I should be doing.  It recently came to my attention that my husband’s work has ‘fasting days’ every so often, and I’ve been awfully curious about the whole thing. 

So I guess I don’t have anything to add to the conversation except that I’m anxious to learn more....

Lately I’ve become really drawn to the idea of fasting. I remember when I read the New Testament for the first time in my life a couple years ago, I thought, “Man, these guys are always talking about fasting!” It was really impressed upon me that that seemed to be something that the writers thought was important.

I did it a little bit during Lent, and one morning I was cleaning up from breakfast and noticed that it was so easy for some reason. Then I realized it was because I had not eaten, so there was nothing to clean up other than the kids’ dishes. Contrasting that to the usual nasty, syrupy plate with waffle crumbs all over it made me realize how freeing fasting can be—it made me realize just how much eating can weigh you down (and not just in terms of body weight)!

Also, I love the idea of getting back in touch with the concept that by eating less ourselves, there is more for others. Living in the abundance of America it’s hard for us to remember that, but in any other time period it would have been a clear outcome that our friends and neighbors would have more by us taking less. Next Lent I think I’m going to do more strict fasting, and then donate the money I would have spent on food to charity.

Great topic!

Amy, I would disagree that people talk about fasting during Lent.  They talk about “giving up something for Lent,” sure, but not about “fasting”.  I see a difference.  The approach most people take to Lent (at least, far and away, most people I know) is giving up something.  “Fasting”, in God’s eyes, is about devotion to Him - which happens to be to the exclusion of all else.  People don’t talk about that kind of fasting very often.  You see this differentiation clearly in passages like Isaiah 58 and Zechariah 7

To answer Kat’s question, I fast - but not regularly.  I fast when I have a purpose for fasting, something I can truly devote myself to beyond my own personal desire to fast.  I tried for a time a regular fast; I found it very difficult and, in the end, decided I was doing it more for me and my personal sense of righteousness and less for God and His worship.  (I greatly admire those who can do such a regular fast with their heart totally dedicated to Jehovah in that time and not for themselves.) However, when I have a purpose, I can and do fast with devotion.  Times like last year’s 40 Day Fast, or in prayer for a very sick friend, etc.  With such a fast, I wholly give myself to God in a way that I cannot when the fast is just about me or routine.

I try not to make a point of my fast times, and I’ll only tell those who need to know.  But, because I am judicious and not boastful, I think there is a greater impact when I do tell someone.  For example, the day I fasted in last year’s 40 Day Fast was my birthday – I chose this intentionally as a personal way to take my mind off of me.  As a result, I found it necessary to tell one person at work, so she wouldn’t order a cake for an office party and then have me conspicuously not eating it in front of everyone.  She was deeply impressed as to the reasons I was fasting, and instead of buying a cake she pooled some money from my coworkers and they donated it to Blood:Water Mission.  Pretty cool, eh?

And the funny thing about Matthew 6:16 - Jesus says ”when you fast”.  It is an expectation as part of our worship to God.

Ok, point taken.  But I still hear people talking more about fasting during Lent.

I think now is a good time to talk about it, because the price of groceries are going up.  ha.

"Amy, I would disagree that people talk about fasting during Lent.  They talk about “giving up something for Lent,” sure, but not about “fasting”.”

I would have to agree with Amy that people do talk about fasting during Lent (and also almsgiving as in Is 58, etc.), at least in more liturgical traditions.  While giving something up may be a more popular topic, especially among the less committed or less liturgical traditions, fasting is an integral part of Lent for many millions of Christians.

Also, Amy, I was curious to read about your interest in all night prayer.  My church has a fairly well attended all night prayer vigil once a month and my old church had one every week.  Some ladies bring soup at my current church to give people who are struggling to stay awake a break and some nourishment (for those who aren’t fasting).  Most large cities have several churches (at least Catholic ones) with all night prayer vigils on a regular basis.  I know of several off the top of my head in Albuquerque, NM; Portland, OR and Cincinnati, OH that set aside a room for 24/7 prayer 365 days a year and have people dedicated to filling each time slot where visitors are always welcome.  Those are just the cities I have lived in, so if you’re in a larger city, I’m sure there is one near you.

MB

I like that Jesus says, “WHEN you fast.,.” not, “If you fast.”

One of the main points of the Sermon on the Mount is Jesus telling his disciples to be Differnt. 
Do not be like the hypocrites (the actors)- BE different.
Love you enemies, fast with out looking dirty and hungry, do not do righteous things in front of men. He wanted his followers to live like him, not like the Religious leaders.
Your heart is the matter.  I like what Randy Alcorn says about letting others know about giving.  Sometimes, when we tell of our obedience, it can encourage others to do the same.
With fasting, we could let others know about God’s awesome response or how He gave the strength to put HIm first instead of the object that was given up.
Just before Christ challenges us to not do these “things” FOR men, He says in Matt 5:16

“In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.”

Our Deeds are always for Gods glory. His scripture is perfect- it never contridicts itself.

MB,
Sadly I was also thinking of those in the liturgical traditions.  From many conversations over the years with Catholics, Lutherans, etc. I have found them (in general) more involved in the trappings of the season and not the meaning.  For example, more interested in having to give up something than what they give back; or more interested in attending a Palm Sunday service just to get the palm leaves like they did when they were a kid (a quote from a girl I knew a dozen years ago).  I’m not trying to be argumentative, but that is the strong impression I’ve received from many, many people.

In general, I find the Christian rare who really talks about fasting, almsgiving, etc. as devotions to God and not as a checklist item.

Kat,

Here’s a cool idea in regard to fasting…
sin entered the world through food and it’s back is broken on our lives when we set food aside.  God calls us to give up what the devil used to introduce sin into the world, to set us free from it’s power in our lives.

I didn’t fast until I heard a series of tapes by Chan Keith.  It was the best teaching on fasting I’ve ever heard.  (I have it if you want to listen) When I understood the purpose for fasting and what it does I started fasting regularly.  I need the spiritual speedbump fasting provides.  It’s not a checklist issue… it’s an intamacy issue (for me)

For me fasting is exchanging my physical appetite for a spiritual appetite for Jesus and His kingdom.
It is deeply personal and I don’t announce to the world “hey look at how cool of a Jesus lover I am, I’m fasting”.  Since I’m a modeling parent… my immediate family knows because I want them to see me modeling Jesus… and they need to know why I’m not eating with them, or cooking for them.

For me, it’s more than simply giving up something or getting something in return.  It’s a spiritual discipline that helps me spiritually mature and grow.  I NEED it’s effect in my life to live abundantly.  I’m that shallow.
I don’t want to have a reason to need the presence of God.  I don’t want to wait until a friend is sick, or I have to have a breakthrough to exercise this gift.
I want the presence of God on my life, I want His joy, His Life, His Love to rest on me.  I want to be tanked all the time so when desperate things happen I’m ready.

When I fast I see visable changes in the natural in regard to specific concerns, sin issues, healing ect. but those are side effects; the prize is His Presence!  The Presence of God is what I’m after when I fast.  I engage the heart of God at deeper levels and that’s what I want.  Everything else is just gravy.

p.s.
is Jesus meanning don’t talk about it at all? or is the context the passage don’t belittle, make others feel less spiritual, announce out of pride, flaunt your values and become a misrepresentation of the heart of God?
because man looks on the outward… but God sees the heart.

I need good teaching on this subject; I need to see that others do it and have expierienced the supernatural presence of God through it.  It’s helpful.
I think people don’t teach on it… because they don’t do it.

Euphrony,

You made a generalization.  I simply disagree with it based on my own experience inside and outside the liturgical traditions and honestly doubt that you have a good reference point to make such a judgment.  Back in my evangelical Protestant days, I had the same impression.  However, it was based on a very scattered sampling of people who for the most part didn’t take religion seriously.  After one is involved personally in the great liturgical traditions, one is able to see the genuine emphasis on fasting and almsgiving that is given in these traditions that is so very valuable.  Having been involved in both non-liturgical and liturgical traditions, I can say that I have seen a much greater emphasis on both fasting and almsgiving in the liturgical traditions (by almsgiving I mean giving not to the local church but to help the poor).

MB

MB, I’m not sure we disagree too much.  I am speaking not just about the liturgical traditions but of all people who call themselves Christian.  Yes, it is a generalization, and I recognize that and tried to qualify it.  I don’t doubt you that the liturgical place greater emphasis on fasting, almsgiving, and a variety of other things - in fact, I would agree.  What I am trying to say is that, by and large, most Christians (whatever their stripe) view fasting and many other disciplines as simple rites and not as acts of worship.  There are definitely those who take it beyond the surface action and make it an offering from their hearts, but those are rare by comparison to the whole.

I’m leaving town and have other things to attend to at the moment, so if I’ve not made myself any clearer here, then I give up.

WOW, WHAT A FIRESTORM!!  Kat, look what you have started! 

I have found that most of the people I know who fast, are very passionate about thier relationship with God.  Thus the back and forth above. 

I think the passage you guys are referring to above is where Jesus is saying, “don’t do it to be seen.” You both are on a similar track.

I fasted last night, from around 9pm to almost 8am this morning!  It felt great!

But seriously, the only time I had “serious” fasting was when I went camping by myself, (with my wife’s blessing) to seek God about a major change in my life. 

I honestly thought it would be this big deal, I would hear voices from heaven, gain the insight and direction I felt I desperately needed in my life at that time. 

I prayed for hours during the day, drank only water.  Had no car to go anywhere, no bike to amuse myself with, only me and God out there.  Well, and the gay park attendant who thought I also was gay and hit on me everyday I was there. “Just checking on you” he would say.  “I don’t see any food, you want to eat a burger with me tonight?” Thank God he didn’t have a banjo, cause I do have a purty mouth.

But I digress.  I had no major revelation out there in camping land.  But later I realized, I was trying to bribe God with my hunger strike.  It was prid pro quo, and it didn’t work out.

I agree with Big E.  Fasting should be worship.  And when I have done it since, I made sure it was that, and not me trying to get something out of God.

I don’t know.  It is one of the few times when Jesus says something that is pretty clear-cut, and no if ands or buts.  Fast, but don’t talk about it.  At all.  (That is, while you are fasting.) Pray, but pray with humility, and in secret.  The best way to do that is to do it where no one can see you.  The reason they are so closely mentioned is because fasting is meant to augment prayer.  This is not some rigid law the Lord’s laid down here; rather it is there for our protection and for our good.  It is a direct counter-act to the tendencies of pride.

No doubt, Jesus was addressing the hypocrites, faking their fasts, but he was also addressing us in that letting people in on your fast robs you from the full benefits of the fast.  They were the easiest of examples. 

Personally, I don’t trust my pride, one bit.  The moment someone knows I am fasting, I usually stop fasting.  I’ve stepped into the realm of the elite, the pious, the “I’m workin’ on a higher spiritual plain here people.” Some people don’t have this problem.  I do.  I’ve experienced it.  I fast, and have fasted, but I don’t tell anymore.  (Even in saying that I felt like I had to establish credibility and make sure that everyone knows that I fast.  Weird huh?) For me, telling people about my fast takes the focus off of “me and God” to “Look at me and God.” I can talk all day long about fasting, I can even talk and teach about fasting while I fast, I just don’t tell anyone that I’m fasting while I happen to be teaching about it.  Point is, it’s between me and the Lord.  An act of worship that requires no audience and thrives in that secrecy. 

Interestingly, Jesus takes it a step further and tells me that when I do, it is my job to make sure people don’t have a clue about it.  Anoint my head with oil and splash water on my face.  Basically, fake being well-fed. 

However, I think you can, as a group, a couple, or a church fast together.  But again, this “togetherness” should be a secret to the ones in the togetherness.  My pride is just to willing to ruin these things.  I believe this is why Jesus gives us clear words and descriptions to help us do these things with the purest of hearts, without the slightest hint or danger of vanity or self-affirmation in the eyes of men.

Of course, now, I probably went and sounded all holier-than thou talking about how good I am that I don’t talk about fasting… See?  It is just a catch 22 all around for me!

Again, this is how God has dealt with me and my experiences with fasting. Other people are maybe just fine talking about it during the fast, and I’ve met a few fellows who are trying it for the first time and are excited about what God is teaching them and just want to tell everybody… I’m afraid I couldn’t pull that off.

Seth,
If you don’t talk about fasting when you’re fasting, then do you pray for people, right on the spot, when they ask for it? Or do you wait until you get home?

I’m not trying to sound snippy (even though that does, in fact, sound rather snippy), I just don’t see how we can treat one differently from the other.

Ideally, I think it would be great if saying we’re fasting didn’t make us feel holier than thou because it’s a normal thing to do in the church.

But how would we know it’s a normal thing to do if we don’t, in humility, talk about it and walk with each other through it?

And inspire/challenge others by doing it?

You know, I really used to hate fasting. I always felt so terrible during the fast, I never felt like praying and doing other stuff to draw near to God.  Then I found out I am diabetic and maybe I was feeling worse than “normal”. At least that’s what I like to think. It’s easier to accept that than the thought of my carnality.

Euphrony,

I think I understand you now.  Thanks for your patience in explaining yourself.

Have fun teaching the folks at MIT.

MB

Huh oh.  I’m in trouble.  I can handle a little snippiness.  We’ve known each other long enough to arm wrestle over it without getting offended.

My point would be, for me, fasting is not praying.  It is there to augment prayer.  There are few times when Jesus gives clear instructions on things, so I suppose perspective is the key FOR ME when it comes to fasting. 

When someone is hurting I don’t fast for them right on the spot.  I pray for them, go home and if I feel led to fast, I will to augment and focus my prayer by abstaining from something.  In some ways it is a the closest thing that Christians have to a physical work, which would explain why Jesus is so specific about the instruction.

As far as prayer goes, the scripture is full of examples where people are prayed for in public- laying of the hands etc.  There is a person-person physicality to prayer that is totally scriptural and absolutely essential and does not require fasting.  But there is a place and importance for private prayer just as much, if not more.  So much so that Paul says to do it without ceasing, and fasting is mostly used in this context. 

As far as fasting, it seems that it is usually exclusively used in private (mostly NT some OT, Jesus in the desert, Moses, David etc.), or privately together, with a corporate body (Pretty sure all OT: Jehosophat, Joel, Isaiah etc.)

For me, and I mean this as clearly as I can mean it, FOR ME, it is a very private and intimate time of personal vulnerability between me and the Lord.  Sometimes I will fast with my wife or with a few other people, but again, we keep that to ourselves, or try hard to.  Why?  Again, the best reason is beause the Lord tells me to do it that way. 

When I read what Jesus says about it, and as it speaks to me, it seems pretty refreshingly clear that I’m supposed to keep it down.  And honestly, it is a bit of a relief.  I don’t want to talk about it with other people.  Most times it just makes the fasting unnecessarily harder.  (Right here, with fasting, is probably the most fundie I’ll ever get, as far as personal me-myself-and-I “rules” and the bible.) And yes there is grace, and God surely doesn’t smite me down if I flub up and spill the beans (or lack of, ha!) or eat the beans (whoa! I’m on fire here folks) but I know that I miss the full benefits of the fast if someone is conscious of my frail state.  All this sounds like I might be to rigid and I’m making a big deal out of the personal “rules” but I don’t really fuss over it… ever, really.  But hey, you asked sister and I annied-up!

Again, this is a conclusion I’ve come to that is between me and God.  Sometimes I might ask why it is okay for my buddy Matt to be able to talk about his fasting and he never feels a hint of pride sneak in but then the Lord turns to me and says “What is that to you?”

To recap, Just in case it didn’t sound like I answered your question:  For me, fasting does not equal prayer.  It is a work that is there for us to augment prayer.  When someone tells me they have a problem, I don’t fast for them on the spot, I pray for them.  I suppose I could say “I am starting now fasting for you, let’s pray.” But I haven’t really received the benefit of the fast (or rather, they haven’t) until I’ve said “no thanks” to the Lou Anne Platter and prayed for my friend instead. 

So yes, it doesn’t really count until I’ve passed on the grub, or water, or chocolate, or Coke or sex or whatever it is that I am abstaining from. And that usually happens later, at home ,and for me, in private.  Especially the fifth one. 

Also, I think you are talking about people fasting together.  Again, I’m okay with that.  I’m not okay with MYSELF telling the other people who are not fasting about it.  I’m okay with teaching about fasting or encouraging people to fast or reading a blog about it or hearing a podcast about the benefits or someone’s experience in a fast.  I’m just also okay with teaching them to do it the way the Lord said to:  While you fast, don’t make a public display of it.  Do your best to keep it between you and God, and hide your hunger.

Good points Seth. This discussion takes me back to our early blogging deep discussions over at “Alan’s” Blog - was that his name? Anyway…

Just to clarify, I didn’t mean to insinuate that fasting and prayer are synonymous, I just meant that Jesus’ instruction in Matt 6 on how we should handle prayer AND fasting are pretty much the same. So if we always fast in secret, how does it not make sense to always pray in secret as well?

Really, though, I think it all comes down to what God calls each of us to do. At our church, fasting is a very common thing - to the extent that I don’t think anyone would be impressed or consider someone holy because they were fasting. It’s normal.

At the same time, no one announces that they’re fasting, but they also don’t get weird about it either. It’s just normal.

And in conjunction with prayer it’s powerful. I’ve seen it.

I like what Charity said about it. It’s about seeking God’s presence not His hand. It’s not about giving up something or getting something, it’s about removing distractions that get in the way of our intimacy with God.

And If we’re fasting for something in particular, sometimes He’ll change our situation, sometimes He’ll change our hearts. But we’ll always emerge changed - sometimes a little bit, sometimes a lot.

I definitely agree that we shouldn’t announce it in a boastful way, but I do think it’s okay, in humility and with clear direction, to fast openly (to a specific group of people, family, friends, even unbelievers...) in such a way that inspires, models and encourages others. I’m totally open to being wrong on this, but I’ve seen others do it and it’s really inspired and challenged me to the extent that I’m rethinking what I’ve always thought about fasting.

Oh yeah!  I forgot we became blogging pals way back on meetanatheist.com.  (Alan’s blog.) Also, don’t you remember me dogging on Ticket Servant?  Talk about a foot-in-the-mouth moment.  Sheesh. 

Like most things that look like disagreements in the beginning, after a brief discussion, we don’t really seem to be disagreeing. 

“At the same time, no one announces that they’re fasting, but they also don’t get weird about it either. It’s just normal.” Agree-

“And in conjunction with prayer it’s powerful. I’ve seen it.” -me too.

“I definitely agree that we shouldn’t announce it in a boastful way, but I do think it’s okay, in humility and with clear direction, to fast openly (to a specific group of people, family, friends, even unbelievers...) in such a way that inspires, models and encourages others.” -Agree, agree and agree. 

However, with ME… (I hope I’ve emphasized that “Me” part enough.  Your original question was about how I personally go about fasting.) I’m usually called to keep my trap shut about it.  Because, I’s likes me some recognition.  That is simply how my nature is geared.  It is a born disposition.  When I do things like fast or other ritualistic things, I like to be holy and I’d like for everyone to know how holy I am.  To counter the pride, I might overcompensate, but as for fasting, I’m pretty happy with the don’t eat/don’t tell regiment.  Yes, I talk about it later, but as for “in the now fasting” time after time the focus turned to me and my suffering rather than an attitude of absolute devotion and desperate dependency upon God. 

It is an actual comfort to keep it hidden.  Not so extreme for others.  There are other things that God has me do that other people don’t have to and visa versa.  It’s the same fore everyone.  I don’t have a problem with wine.  Some do. 

I really think people don’t talk about fasting because they just don’t understand it. (I also agree that people use Jesus’ teaching on it as an excuse not to talk about it.) It has fallen out of practice and therefore it is viewed as some sort of weird and unhealthy fanaticism.  Which is regrettably understandable.  Maybe everyone here has read this book, but “Celebration of Discipline” is a great and enlightening book, not only for fasting but prayer and other Christian spiritual disciplines. 

Christians today are missing out on many of the tried and true (ancient- I’m talkin’ early Christian and Jewish before them) techniques that can aid us in our spiritual disciplines.  Probably my best and most memorable experience in my Campus Crusade days was during that study. 

There are things that book taught me that I still do to this day that to help me focus and surrender in prayer.  (Three “thats” in that sentence.  Wow.)

Great discussion my friend.  How fun!  It’s been a while since I’ve been in one that got my gears creaking and squeaking.  I’m all ready to go fast now… dangit!

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