I Have An Issue With KLOVE…A Serious Issue

Posted on 04.01.08 in Faith and there are 42 comments.

As I was listening to the radio today the DJ’s on KLOVE started talking about KLOVE’s upcoming Friends and Family cruise.

“It’s gonna be SO much fun.”

“Your kids will finally want to go on vacation with you.”

“It’s just the break your wife needs.”

“And we have a great monthly payment plan for you.”

Monthly payment plan?

Um...did they just say that?

Yep, they sure did.

Maybe it’s just me, but I have a serious issue with a Christian organization that encourages and enables people to go into debt for something as frivolous as a cruise.

I’m holding back here. I could really spout off on this one, but I want to hear what you all think. (Here is a post about our financial perspective, if you want to know where I’m coming from.)

Does this seem off base to anyone else?

The Comments:

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Yeah, I’ve heard that commercial a few times now.  And that’s probably what happens when we try to commercialize Christianity.  I seem to remember a story in the Bible about Jesus getting a little irritated that money was changing hands in the temple, a place where he went to worship the Father.  I don’t know if that analogy is valid or not, but it seems pretty close to me.  So yeah, a cruise for a family is going to run well into the thousands of dollars, especially when you count in airfare, etc…

Yeah. Seriously. I mean, come on. I have a love/hate relationship with KLOVE.  Why are they worried about putting together this cruise? Why are they pushing followers of Jesus to buy into it??

I wonder what followers of Jesus in Darfur and Afghanastan and Peru think about it . . .

I hope they don’t find out about it, actually. That would be really embarrassing.

Sorry. That sounded kind of harsh. I’m just not down with it.

I have a problem with the whole Christian cruise thing in general.

wow...pretty amazing. i don’t get it.
i got a credit card application for Family Christian Stores for a credit line of $50,000.00 hahaha...amazing. we’re so far away from where i think this all was intended to be.

I totally agree. Go on a cruise, fine! Great. Wonderful. Bring me a t-shirt. But when we are supposed to be good stewards of our money, why would they promote debt? It makes no sense to me. Of course, many things make no sense to me. Guess I am a fuddy duddy these days.

Pretty ridiculous and all kinds of wrong.  I agree Amy on the issue in general.  It’s promoting debt and living in a bubble world.  How does one make an impact on folks who aren’t believers when one makes sure that he/she is always around “believers” to the point that one would take this kind of vacation?

Hey, Kat, me and Mrs. E got pretty ticked at a church we once attended when they decided to build a new building and set up convenient low-interest loans for members, so they would have the money upfront and everyone else would be paying off the debt for years.

Don’t get me started on this.  Really.

Yes, it’s off.  But then again, I can’t think of many things I’d like to do less than go on a KLOVE cruise.  Like Amy, I have a problem with the whole concept.

Welcome to my world. 

I’ve been having problems with most “Christian” radio stations ever since that “If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it” hit the airwaves. But that’s a whole other topic.

Also, I sat in church once and watched an advertisement/trailer for someone getting out of personal debt… then it said “for only 49.99 you can experience financial freedom the way God wants it!”

I about barfed.  Can you imagine how discouraging?  How many families out there are struggling just to keep food on the table?  The only people that could afford it are the ones that don’t need it.  Irritated me.

I think for me, I have to realize that Christian radio is a business.  Christian Music is a business.  Money is exchanged and advertisements are sold.  The sad thing is because they are, the lines between charity and commerce are shaded and you get this crud.  Point is, (and you would know more about this than me, so I may be wrong) the radio folks say what they are paid to say, as far as advertisement goes.  Money, money, and more money.  The radio station needs it and the guy selling rooms on the cruise ship needs it.  It is a shame that Jesus and the cross is used as a part off the advertisement campaign to gather it.  Jesus is big business.  I think that the world is figuring that out.  And someday soon, American Christians are going to held accountable for peddling the cross and letting people pay for it.

Kat - Are you upset by the payment plan, or the whole idea of a “Christian cruise”?

There is definitely enough bad money-handling among believers that we should be teaching and encouraging people to get out of debt, and not to waste money by knowingly incurring debt for things they can’t afford to pay for up front.

But, going on a cruise is one of those things that my wife and I have never done, and that we think we might like to do someday. Of course we would save our money up in advance over a long period of time, and make sure we could pay for it without going into debt.

So when you say a cruise is “frivolous”, are you saying I should re-think doing such a thing at all, whether it’s labeled “Christian” or not? Or are you only upset by the “payment plan”?

It sounds like some of your commenters think this whole concept is wrong and flawed. So a bunch of people getting together as believers for sort of a social gathering, and getting to hear and meet Christian musicians, and maybe getting to mingle a bit with other believers, and paying a bunch of money so that they actually have a nice space to meet together and do all this is wrong? But who knows? Maybe people will pray together and be encouraged, and the kids will have fun and get to hear about Jesus and do Christian-themed things, and somebody will have seminars and teach, and lives might be changed, and a portion of the proceeds will be given to missionaries and charities. Would it be OK then?

Wait, were we talking about a Christian cruise, or church? I’m all confused now.

Kat,

Im thankful for klove because my kids LOVE it and you know when your in the car, you ah need music everyone loves. 
Now that I’ve started with the positive…
that sucks.  b.a.d.
I mean what if their listener base goes into debt to go on this cruise and then they CAN’T make thier monthly pledge to klove.
I don’t think I can handle another pledge drive.
I’m not opposed to the cruise idea, but promoting it and making it so listeners can go into debt for it… shame shame shame on them.  That is SO gross.

Wow, some very scorched earth going on here today.  Some I agree with, some I completely disagree with.

First, I think its wrong to go into debt to go on a cruise.  Is it also wrong to go into debt for $1500 fridge, when the $700 model will do you just fine and you can afford to pay cash for it?

Is it wrong to go into debt for a $35,000 suburban, when I can sell you my 2000 model for around $7000? 

I think the underlying theme here so far is less the going into debt, and more the self-sacrifice.  Possibly not allowing yourself to have any fun too?

I have been on a cruise.  I took the lovely Katherine on one for our 20th anniversary.  I didn’t feel bad about it.  I wasn’t convicted it was sin while I was there, or at any point thereafter.

I kind of wish it would have been one with lots of Christians on it, because it would have meant I could have seen less drunks and vomiting, and less nudity.

I think its a nice thing for a family vacation.  If you are going to take one, why not have the kids involved in Christian activities?  It beats the sex-ed lesson my kids received at the Tyler Zoo last summer from the lions.  So violent.

If you have posted on here, what exactly is your beef?  Take a close look.  Is it the lack of self-denial that you think others should exhibit?  Is it just bad to go into debt for something so trivial? (I think so) What is at the root of your being so upset about this?

First of all, I gasped when I read the post about Euphrony’s old church! That is unbelievable!  What a con!!

But on the other hand, I agree with Chaotic Hammer. A Christian cruise sounds kind of nice. It’s something I’d be interested in, but I’m NOT interested in going into debt to go. It’s really hard for me where I live (Dallas, TX) to find other Christian people, so anything that puts Christians together catches my attention. But the payment plan? NoT! ( I just dated myself there!LOL)

I just checked their website.  It looks like it is a pre-payment plan.  I don’t know if they have a “cruise now, pay later” plan. 

They also have bars and casinos per their FAQs; their answer sounds like “we don’t endorse this, but couldn’t do anything about it”.  I don’t think these activities should be part of a Christian family cruise.  And I think a Christian radio station, Christian artists and Christian customers should be able to do something about it.  If it makes the cruise unprofitable, then perhaps it’s not the right venue.

I forgot to add this:

I don’t know how you access KLOVE, which I used to listen to by internet in Dallas.  But if you’re in the Houston-Beaumont-College Station area, you should be able to get KSBJ (89.3 in Houston), which is also a good Christian radio station.  You can also listen at ksbj.org.

Wow, my post sounded rather nasty.  Sorry if that turned into a morning rant.  One should not post before the first cup of coffee. 

Peace to all.

ceis:

Unless we Christians pony up to buy an exclusively Christian cruise ship, the bars are going to be there, and the gambling too.

And I would have an issue with an exclusively Christian cruise ship.  Unless it was used to carry relief supplies to various needy parts of the world part of the time.  No, I would still have an issue, back to the Jesus is big business thing, which I somewhat agree happens too much.  I used to be in the business, and I saw it first hand.  I hated it too.

And for those of who were thinking it, your Prius is not going to work for me, I have 7 kids to haul around so I need that suburban. 

Perhaps that is being irresponsible too?  I have heard that from some people before.  So do I agree with the bible?  Who says “blessed is the man whose quiver is full” when he referred to having children. Or with the people who say you can’t possibly care for that many kids properly, you can’t give them the opportunities they deserve, blah blah blah.  Trust me, I have heard it all.

I wish they had not said those things.  I feel compelled to pay for the 4 in college.  And the younger ones who feel they just have to play select soccer and baseball and softball and volleyball.  I could sponsor about 20 kids if I cut that stuff out. But then I would feel guilty about not giving them thier opportunities.

Perhaps we should not be so quick to judge those who would cruise, or those who would not, or even those who would max out that credit card to make it happen. 

In the words of a very wise woman, “you have to run your own race.”

To answer deemus, for me the problem is the fiscal irresponsibility.  Pure and simple.  If you cannot afford a luxury, don’t buy it.  If, as in the case of my old church, if you have to ask people to go into personal debt (or even the church go into debt) over a building project, then perhaps you need to scale back the plans a little (which the church could have done readily, for example eliminating the 100-foot tower that was just for show).

As to the Christian music cruise, I’ve no problem with that, per se.  They do it in a number of musical genres, so why not CCM as well?  And, as some have stated, it does present a somewhat safe environment for kids to experience a cruise without (hopefully) drunken debauchery running amok on the decks.  Perhaps that was a little strong?  In any case, if you enjoy the music, and can afford it, enjoy the cruise!

E:

We are in agreement with the fiscal irresponsibility issue.  And the enjoying the cruise part.  I had fun on the one I went on, but likely would not do it again.  Just not my thing.

I was at first offended by the ad but then when they said the cruise was in 2009 - I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that it was sort of a lay-away plan (remember those?) so you could reserve your room and pay it off before you go. Is this possible that they would mean that?
On the subject, we were listening to a Christian radio station in Austin once and heard an advertisement for a “lifestyle loan”.  They gave examples of going on a vacation or buying a recreational vehicle.  And actually said that you could get the loan ‘so you could have the lifestyle you want’.  I mean, come on...at least go from the angle that everyone needs relaxation or something...don’t say it is so you can have the lifestyle you want. Aren’t people smarter than that???

I guess if all the payments are made in advance and there is no interest, it might not be that bad.

The car issue is a big one for me, I really struggled with having to go in debt over a car.  But I did and feel mostly happy about the choice, my older car was costing too much in repairs.

It might be nice to have a cruise where the kids don’t have to see that stuff, but honestly I don’t think kids really need to be on a cruise.  Anyway you look at it, it’s an expensive vacation.  I can see it for a significant anniversary or a honeymoon, but a family vacation?

I guess I should slow down on my feelings towards Christian cruises.  If people enjoy them, that is great.  I certainly understand wanting a cleaner environment for the kiddos.  Personally, I don’t think that would be my cup of tea.  But usually, I can only stand that station for so long… As long as they are not promoting fiscal irresponsibility, it’s okay I guess. 

I still have this nagging feeling, though.  Why do we as Christians feel the need to have the Christian label on everything?  We even have Christian bread and Christian cereal.  My diabetic grandma was buying this stuff because she thought it would be okay for her to eat because there were scriptures on it for Pete’s sake.  (Yes, I digressed.)Should we have to label it?  Shouldn’t it be evident?  I think it would be cool to get a whole bunch of Christians on a secular cruise and then just watch them live it out and hopefully be positive examples of Jesus to the folks around them.

I think using Jesus to make a profit is a sin.

The most prominent issue in my mind about all of this is what ryanb already brought up. Specifically, what does this cruise, and all of the associated festivities “in the name of Jesus”, demonstrate to other believers around the world about Christianity? These believers are, more often than not, persecuted, possibly to the point of martyrdom. Is the passion of our hearts the making of disciples, or the entertainment of ourselves? I’m certainly not anti-entertainment, but it seems that some “Christian” radio stations have commercialized the Christian faith so much that what remains is merely a kind of “pop” Christianity, without any real substance. Unfortunately, it seems that this is what many people mean when they call themselves “Christian.” That is all…

Seth - That’s a pretty provocative statement. What exactly do you mean by “profit”? Would you include preachers, teachers, authors, musicians, and others who use the name of Jesus in their materials to help support their families? What is your take on 1 Corinthians 9? Is your boy Joel Osteen using Jesus to make a profit?

Oooooo. I’d have to ask Kat if is okay to get into that.  That might be something to toss around over at yours or my blog.  It may be a little off the subject and take up a bunch of space.  Might be better not to dominate the discussion.  I’ve been enjoying everyone’s thoughts on this subject!

“Your boy” Nice pot-shot, btw. 

Kat?

Discuss away Seth.

Come on Kat, weigh in here.  Don’t be an arsonist.  ;>)

I totally plan to weigh in. I just sat down at about 9pm and I’m working on a big post for tomorrow’s Parent’s University (I’m very excited about it...) as soon as I finish it, I’ll share my thoughts here…

Thanks for the prompt…

Oh, well.  I started this post about 20 times and I suppose there is no way to write it without sounding unbelievably judgmental.  Please forgive the hardness of the post, and I am in no way saying that I’ve got it all figured out.  These are just the thoughts that have been raging through my brain since Amber and I stopped touring. 

But really, I’m in such a good mood.  I’m tired of being critical.  So I’ll give the cliff-note version.  (which is still dang long.)

I think all artists, preachers, teachers, authors who are coming in the name of the Lord, preaching the Gospel and who are selling God to make a profit, should cease selling and take donations.  It puts all things in the hands of faith.  Shoot, you can still have stores, just take a donation for the book.  Why not?  After all, the most stolen book in the world is the Bible, and thank God for that!  But why not just make it free, and lift the sin from their conscience?

But even in donations, one should be clear about what they make and be careful that your truest intention is spreading the Gospel and living by faith rather than doing it because “studies have shown that donations seriously rake the cash.”

I think that the CCM industry as we know it should topple, and it is.  I got in a conversation with Kurt Keiser one time and he talked about how different it was when places like Word and Sparrow were independent labels and the Jesus movement was a Jesus movement and not a Jesus business, back when Keith was blazing the trail.  Rich even found a way around the selling stuff raking a huge profit issue by having a committee at his church handle his money and he took a salary based upon what the average man in his church made.  The rest went to the poor. 

I believe that the Christian Music industry has created a monster.  It must be profitable, therefore it is a slave to the world.  Stations like KSBJ are in a better place to be an actual “ministry” because they are listener supported.  And the more CCM artists you get to know, the more you’ll realize that there are droves that feel a little strange about it all, and rightly so.  Honestly, most of their listeners buy the CDs to support the artist.  Why not just do donations and give the rest away for free? 

I think that Christian Publishing houses should consider all profit from the Gospel property of the Lord, since it is, after all, his material. 

I think that Christians (churches) should quit raking profits from the tithes and building themselves a multiplex Church bubble and get into the world.  To me, the extravagance of the building is less disturbing than the closed-off environment that it creates.  Shoot, I’m all for creating something beautiful as an offering to God, but I’m not all for shutting ourselves off from a lost and dying world.  Therefore, I think that for every Christian cruise a Christian takes they should take cruises with non-believers, or at least bring some non-believers along for free.  If that was the attitude maybe they wouldn’t be peddling so hard as to encourage people to go into debt. 

I suppose on the whole, I think that Capitalistic Christianity should come crumbling down and a new and “free” Gospel should be offered to the world.

I believe that if you live by faith, that God gives you what you need to accomplish what He has called you to do.  That goes for everything.  As for making bunches of money, I’m sorta with Rick Warren on this than Osteen, even though I think they both end up saying the same darn thing in the end: Make tons of money while you live, but you better die with none of it in your bank account.  So even while working in the world… make tons of money, just not off SELLING the Gospel. And if the donations happen to be huge, I suppose that’s between you and the Lord on how much you should keep.  I think I’d just give away tons of money.  After all, happiness is really in doing what you love and blessing other with it, not in counting your cash.

Selling anything about the Gospel puts a price tag on it, and therfore cheapens it.  Even if the price tag was all the money and gold in the world it would cheapen it.  For some reason the world gets this and Christians don’t. 

I suppose that those that argue that “we’ve got to work in the Capitalistic world that we live” have a point, but as far as the Gospel is concerned, if you are called to do it full time, I would seriously consider offering it for free, and take a donation. 

As for Preachers, most make their money off of donations.  Congregants tithe after all.  They don’t pay to get in the door.

I shall cease and desist.

Hearing the commercial about the cruise on KLOVE bothers me too Kat.

So, here’s my take:

My issue isn’t primarily with luxury vacations, stewardship or cuddly Christian community. Although, I have thoughts on those topics as well.

My big problem has to do with leadership. KLOVE is a parachurch organization. I don’t think a Christian organization should advocate or enable people to spend money they don’t have - particularly for a vacation.

I think that’s poor leadership.

And it makes me kinda mad..because I know that there will be at least a few (if not more) families that will fall into debt to some extent as a result.

Seth,

Right now, I am so divided on this issue.  I completely hear what you’re saying, and I’m with you on a lot of it, but…

OK.

First thing is, I think we have to keep “capitalism” separate from “rich.” Using a capitalistic system to sell a product does not necessarily mean the seller will become rich off of it.  It also doesn’t mean the seller is selling dishonestly.  And further, what the seller does with the profit, big or small, is entirely private, unable to be judged by an outside party.  And rich doesn’t necessarily mean wrong.

That being said.

It must be profitable, therefore it is a slave to the world.

I don’t think just because something is profitable, that it is a slave to the world.  Profit doesn’t necessarily mean “the love of money.” But I think that’s a whole OTHER discussion.

Moving on

Strangely enough, Oprah comes to mind.  Her salvation aside (because that’s not the point I’m trying to make nor do I want to debate whether she’s a Christian), and besides the fact that I’m a sucker for watching her show (I really do love it)...I’ve made the statement before that her new show, The Big Give, could possibly be held to a different standard of accountability than her own life.  Jesus tells us to give secretly, without making it a public spectacle.  On first glimpse, it would seem her show is the very opposite of Jesus’ commandment.  But who is to say what Oprah gives personally and how God will judge that?  Her show is a separate entity from her personal life.  The revenues from her T.V. show are a corporate matter.  She, or her producers, or whoever, decides how the revenues will be spent to further the continuous making of money.  Giving bookoos of money away to help people is how they’re spending it, and also paying Oprah’s salary, and boosting whatever investment she’s made into the company, however all that stuff works.

How does this apply?

Could the same be true for Christian music?  Can the business itself be separated from the individual?  I think maybe it can.  It makes it hard for the Christian making the music, because you’ve got execs telling you what to write and how to write it and how to make art, and that bites.  But because a Christian makes the choice to buy another Christian’s music certainly doesn’t mean the Christian seller is in the wrong.

So.  While this Christian has the business, his own personal life should be lived to please God.  Sure, he writes a book about Jesus, but does he spread the love of God to his neighbor?  Can’t he spread the gospel individually, like all other Christians, and be held accountable for that?

I guess the bottom line is:  A Christian sells his art.  His art is Christian.  But at the end of the day, the Christian is still just a Christian, and his art is still just his art.

But I felt so good when I did my small part on KIVA to help Raul go in debt (deeper possibly).

I know the money was for him to buy supplies to expand his hardware store, but he’s still paying interest. There’s profit somewhere for someone.

I feel like this is different. Can anyone help me understand why?

Kat, I agree. The real issue at hand here is this: Should Christian/para-church organizations encourage or provide opportunities for people to do things that we believe to be morally wrong?

Personally? I think that’s wrong. I don’t want to judge them for it but we’ve all seen the damage that debt can do to families. My wife and I are in the final week of paying off the last of our debt so this is a very pertinent topic for me. I don’t ever want to be in that place again and I hope that most Christian organizations would feel the same way.

Great discussion here by the way. Looks like you hit this week’s hot topic!!

Brad Ruggles
http://www.bradruggles.com

I bet Seth and FancyPants have a nice, long talk at home today on this subject.  Play nice, you two . . .

Seth,
Have you looked at Steve Camp?  He seems to espouse the exact same view you have just described - “freely you have received, freely you must give” and “we don’t want money to be a prerequisite for ministry.” He has a suggested donation for each item in his store, but will gladly ship it for free.  He has been a firebrand for the last 20 years and he seems to have lost a lot of friends for his hard-nosed approach.  Take, for example, an open letter he wrote to the Christian Music industry in 2002(?) regarding the Chevrolet Come Together and Worship Tour with Max Lucado, Third Day, and Michael W. Smith.  He laid out four basic concerns (and wrote at length on each):
1. Charging people money to come and worship the lord and hear his gospel,
2. Partnering with unbelievers in the work of the ministry,
3. Inviting and condoning secular corporations to do their business and trade in the midst of the worship of god, and
4. Purposely soliciting from non-believers to finance the work of the ministry.

I don’t know that I agree with him on all his stances, or with his brash approach.  But, he definitely asks some good questions.

Clint
Yes, the people you connect with through Kiva pay interest on the loans.  But that is not for profit of the lender; it only covers expenses associated with making a loan (much like ~10% of giving to Compassion goes to keeping Compassion going while ~90% goes to helping the sponsored child).

Brad,
Congrats on paying off your debt! That’s wonderful.

Clint,
This is going to sound harsh, but here goes:

The difference between Kiva and KLOVE’s cruise is that Kiva is trying to help people - long term - with their loan - and they are succeeding. KLOVE’s payment plan primarily helps whomever is promoting the cruise, and long term, I think it’s hurting the people who take them up on the offer.

I’m not universally against all forms of debt. Jimmy and I have a home loan and without student loans, we would never have met at Baylor...(yay for student loans). I think there are some forms of debt that can be beneficial in the long term.

But I think debt is used too much in our society for things that add short term pleasure and long term pain.

Kat,
You are right. There is a big difference between Kiva and a Christian radio station encouraging debt.  We are living at a time and in a culture where debt has become epidemic.  This should make KLOVE extra cautious about encouraging debt.  I have lost some respect for them.

It’s like the passage that Paul wrote about eating meat sacrificed to idols. It’s not a bad thing in and of itself (because meat is just meat) but to that culture and at that time, eating “meat sacrificed to idols” sent a confusing message to people coming out of that mindset.  Paul said we should give up our freedom to eat it if it makes our brother stumble.

In the same way, debt is one of the many idol-meats of our time.  I think KLOVE should make a public apology and retract their statement.  They should even dismantle their “monthly payment plan”.  Frankly, they should admit they have sinned and repent.  Oooo! That’s strong language!  I think my feathers are ruffled!

Brian

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a Christian cruise, per se (just know that not everyone who calls themselves a “Christian” is truly a “follower of Christ"), but like you - I have issues with going into debt to afford it. If you have to have a “payment plan”, then you can’t afford it.  My husband and I see people every day who are overextending themselves because they are part of the “want it now” generation. People aren’t saving because they are too busy keeping up with everyone else and buying to their heart’s content. It’s sad to see even Christians being poor stewards with their money.

However, one might argue that a “pre-payment” plan is a little bit like a savings account for a cruise - it’s not much different than opening a Christmas Club account or a money market for setting 6 months of salary aside...unless, of course, you haven’t already set 6 months of salary aside.

I have read all of these comments and am saddened.  You have all focused pretty much on one thing.  K-Love’s trying to get you to go into debt.  Wow.  Amazing.  They offer a pre-payment plan that you can say no to if you cannot afford it, and you are judging them.  Harshly, I might add.  And as for the comment above that states “I think for me, I have to realize that Christian radio is a business.  Christian Music is a business.  Money is exchanged and advertisements are sold,” where exactly do you get this?  K-Love does not make money on advertisements. 

K-Love is an amazing company.  They are not perfect.  And guess what?  They never will be.  But will they pray for you?  Absolutely.  Not only will they say they will pray for you, they do.  20 minutes, 4 times a day.  The employees have the option of going in and picking up a sheet of paper with prayer needs listed on it.  Some of them have 1st names, others are listed as anonymous.  Every person that submits a prayer request gets listed on these papers.  And all of these papers get prayed for everyday.  They have 5 full-time pastors on staff that you can talk to if you just ask.

I guess what I am trying to say is this.  K-Love has some very good qualities and the passion behind it is evident in the people that work there.  They make mistakes, even though they try not to.  But when it comes to going into debt, if asked, I think they would take a firm stand against what’s been said about them promoting debt here.  I do not believe that K-Love promotes you going into debt.  They do promote you talking to God and letting God guide you on whether or not you can afford to take their cruise.  And if you can’t, then DON’T SIGN UP AND THEN BLAME THEM BECAUSE YOU DECIDED TO GO INTO DEBT ALL BY YOURSELF.

Nothing wrong with a cruise and nothing wrong with a Chistian.  Lot’s a Cristians enjoy cruises every year and it ends up supporting the livelyhoods of several otherwise poor island nations.  Nothing wrong with enjoying hte fellowship of a bunch of Christians for a week either.  I think one of the bigger problems for the church these days is people are too eager to get offended.  As far as the payments plan goes, yeah, not the best practice and best not trumpeted, but it’s not like it’s of the devil.  For someone like myself, I can afford the cruise straight out, but since I live abroad and don;t keep a lot of liquid cash in the US, it would be a relevent service.

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